12' wide issue

Anonymous to me
show details 11:54 AM (0 minutes ago) Reply


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "territory of la":

In regards to the letter from the town’s attorneys in the newsletter:

Exactly what was the town responding to -- just the question of permitting 12’ wides? Why didn’t the board also include the original letter from LACA’s attorney in the newsletter so that all the property owners know exactly what communication has been going on between us and the town? What are the EXACT problems that the town sees with LA’s infrastructure and property management that haven’t been or in the process of being rectified? What is the board’s next step -- nothing?

Once again, a little bit of information is thrown out us just to pacify us -– no intro, no conclusion -– just figure it out for yourself. And it took almost 3 months for that. The BOD wonders why people lash out and vent on forums such as this blog. Well, duh-h-h-!





Posted by Anonymous to LAKE ADVENTURE RV COMMUNITY BLOG OF THE POCONO MOUNTAINS PENNSYLVANIA at February 20, 2009 7:50 AM

12' wide issue

the 12' wide issue is another example of where this bod has dropped the ball again-- they removed the legal counsel, engaged new counsel and then let the issue die---why -- because they are not able to devote the time necessary to handle the time constrains for this issue -- working one day a month is not going to advance this project-- hell it isn't enough time to handle the day to day operations of the community-- a capable manager is required to move this issue forward with aggressive knowledgeable legal counsel-- the last point i'm aware of is that the township presented an proposed ordinance that would allow 12' wides with some new requirements -- la was to counter to the township proposal with any issues that la needed addressed-- that is as far as it has progressed --if this is the situation then the ball is in la's court and la needs to get moving-- this bod can't do that-- when tom annunziata was the bod president he attended the township meetings and some progress seemed to be evident-- now that art bergey is the president it is a dead issue -- who's at fault here??????? perhaps the bod needs a new president that has the time to give to this and other issues before the community

replacement of worn out and dated housing is important to any community in order to maintain property values-- communities with derelict housing soon become depressed and properties are abandoned and not maintained-- this is occurring at la now -- with about 150 to 200 properties no longer paying dues and probably not being maintained -- la is moving toward a slum community status-- that's bad for those who value their property and the financial investment they have in la--

another reason for members to get involved and protect their investment-- new people need to step forward and run for the bod-- i will continue to try to organize members and collect emails for members so a bank of concerned members can be compiled and used to send out info on possible bod candidates and decimate their opinions on issues that are important to the community---- help me with this project and maybe we can get something started at la !!

---chipper

12' wide informative comment !

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "COMMENT - STAFFING - QUESTION":

I'll give what info I have on the 12' wide situation. All other communities have approval to have them except LA. They are built better structurally and with better insulation so less money to heat and cool and don't have tip outs so you won't have to worry about leaks. Almost six years ago LA went to the twsp to get approval to be able to have them on site but didn't have legal representation and were not prepared to present their case. Since then they hired an attorney(s) and presented a case to the twsp including witnesses regarding environmental impact, etc. The twsp replied with some requests to the ordinance LA didn't agree with and since then (last January) no one has persued the issue. Many are waiting to purchase new trailers but are reluctant to get another tipout when 12' wide are now the standard. It is my understanding that 12' wides are tenatively approved with some stipulations, lofts were one problem but LA already has documentation that HUD said lofts don't count as floor space so they can dispute that point. The new attorney, Tammy Lee Clause, is very well regarded in the community and is a good choice however without a manager to represent LA she doesn't have much to work with. I don't think we should expect the Office to take on all the tasks a manager should do unless they get promoted. The BOD is not around on a regular basis to interact the attorney in this case. There was supposedly a meeting in early Sept with the attorney to discuss the issue but no information appeared in the Sept board minutes and questions regarding the status have gone unanswered. Maybe if the Oct and Nov board minutes are published we will see some information. LA is a great place for family fun but as owners and trailers get older and older it will be difficult to attract a new generation if we look like a junkyard. I'm a senior citizen and I need to get a new trailer but if I'm going to spend $40,000+ I want a 12' wide. LA get $250 for every new trailer bought from Total Recreation, you would think that would be motivation enough to get this ordinance passed.

COMMENT - STAFFING - QUESTION

Anonymous to me
show details 10:54 PM (1 hour ago)

Reply

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment = another unhappy camper ???":

DOES THE BOD GET ALONG.........

MAYBE THEY ARE FIGHTING BETWEEN THEMSELFS....

I AGREE THAT NOT MUCH IS BEING DONE TO IMPROVE LA AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE RUN LIKE ANY OTHER SMALL TOWN. WE NEED COMMITIES TO TAKE ON PROJECTS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE DONE RIGHT AND COST EFFECTIVE.

I DONT THINK GARY NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, BETWEEN THE LADIES IN THE OFFICE AND THE MEN IN THE MAINTANCE DEPARTMENT THEY ALL KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO PUT IN CHARGE AND BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS..

LAST BUT NOT LEAST.....
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THE WHOLE 12" TRAILER THING GOING ON.........

comment + question

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:42 AM, Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment reply":

According to the published Aug board notes there was a meeting scheduled with the attorney in early Sept to work on the 12' wide issue. That was three months ago. Has anyone heard of an update? It may be mentioned in the Sept board minutes which we may see in January, why does it take so long to get the notes published?

#39

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":

I agree. It seems the town is playing hard ball so before I do anything next spring I'll get a survey. I'm interested in the actual dimensions of my lot anyway so this is a good time to have one done. Appreciate your help.

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue + question":

Yes, the town does keep the actual survey on file. You can get an additional copy from your surveyor for your own records. I also gave a photocopy of it to LA for their files (to avoid any other screw ups on their end in the future).

My trailer was noted as not compliant when I applied for a DECK permit. A certified survey is required by the town with that application. I don't know if they inspect your site if you are just getting a new trailer - you don't need a trailer permit from the town. But if your trailer is not in the right placement, you may have a problem in the future if you have to go to the town for any of their permits. I strongly urge anyone who is getting a new trailer to get a survey done beforehand. Better safe than sorry.

comment + 12' wide issue + question

Anonymous said...
Does the twsp keep the certified copy of the survey or make a copy? Apparently they actually come out to the site and check the placement of a new trailer. Does LA keep a copy in your file? How did the twsp know that a new trailer was slightly over the easement if they didn't already have a current copy of a survey? Sorry about so many questions but I'm seriously thinking I need a new trailer next season and don't want to lose half the summer on logistics if I can help it. All the information I've gotten on this site in the last few weeks has been very helpful. Thanks for everyone's input.

December 2, 2008 7:38 PM



Anonymous said...
LA is requiring us to get permits from them before going to the town for decks, platforms, gazebos and screenhouses. Is there a fee for these LA permits? If so, that means we have to pay twice - once to LA and then to the town!

December 2, 2008 7:59 PM

comment + 12' wide issue -- more

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":


Good point. I didn't buy property to make a monetary winfall but invested in a place that will be fun for the family but that won't continue if the appeal is gone if old, rusted and abandon trailers increase. People selling their lots with a trailer can't even get back the money they paid for their lot 10 years ago which may not be the case at some other communities. My neighbor said she would give her lot away for free just to get rid of the dues and taxes and it's still on the for sale by owner list. I know I'm not going to make money when I try to sell my lot, my thought is I don't want any abandon trailers in my neighborhood so I don't have to consider selling sooner than planned. We need new housing whether it be 12' wides or 8.5' wides but I hear many are waiting for 12' wides and the longer they wait the older and less appealing the neighborhoods appear to prospective buyers. In looking at new trailers the cost of a tipout was only slightly less than a 12' wide. Right now the dealers have a lot of '07 and '08 stock of 12' wides and are offering good discounts on them while the 8.5' still have to be special ordered at full price. The park models do depreciate quickly but for about the same money you get a better built home. If you check the specs of 8.5 vs a 12' you'd notice just about everything is upgraded on the 12'er making it more energy efficient for both heating and air conditioning.

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue -- more":

All this 12 wide issue talk is interesting, however, a 12 wide trailer cost at least $40,000.00 and the average selling price of properties with trailers is much less then that. Anyone who is considering their property at LA an investment is sadly mistaken. These are RV which depreciates as rapidly as an automobile. Don't get me wrong, I love LA and always will but as far as an investment I have never considered getting back what I have put into my place. So before you consider spending a lot of money on a new 12 wide trailer remember it is for enjoyment not investment.

12' wide + dingman township

it appears from all the comments that a lot has happened over this year in regards to the 12' wide issue and trailer placements-- what is evident is that you need a licensed surveyor to establish and mark your property lines before you proceed with ordering a new trailer, you may have to relocate your deck, shed and etc. to accommodate a new trailer; you will need a permit from dingman township and have the township officer agree to your trailer location; have you lot location for your trailer properly marked with flags; be sure your contractor who installs the trailer has properly positioned your trailer before they finish and leave; you should be available for the installation day; additional work such as construction or reconfiguration of existing decks, steps, railings or shed placements should be done after you have your trailer installed

yes there are many things to work out if you order a new trailer

also you could have your surveyor give you a drawing with his seal with all these locations for the trailer, deck and shed outlined and in compliance with the dingman township rules-- they all know the rules that are applicable to dingman township -- with this in hand you should have no problem with the township-- they love official surveys-- also give this to your vendor who is supplying and installing your trailer so that if anything is done wrong you don't have to pay to correct their mistake


#49

comment + 12' wide issue -- more

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue -- more":

When I questioned the compliance officer this past summer about the discrepancy between how the town measures and the LA bylaws, he said that it has ALWAYS been the town law and that he has brought it to the attention of the BOD and told them the bylaws must be updated. My problem wasn't what he was going by on the trailer (he did measure from the pull out), rather what he considered the property line.

And, yes, it was nothing but unnecessary, sickening aggrava

comment + 12' wide issue -- more

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":


Who does surveys in the area? I saw US Geological Survey Co in Milford in the yellow pages. Does the LA office recommend any one in particular? What is the sense of having bylaws that are not in compliance with the township? Sounds like a waste of time and money and added aggravation for the homeowner.



Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":


I'll check but if I remember correctly measurements are taken from exterior corner to corner excluding tipouts, bay windows, overhangs, etc. which makes the trailers 8 and a half feet wide. The twsp seems to be measuring the trailers the way a 12' wide home would be. Our bylaws may have been correct years ago but apparently not any more. The compliance officer needs to meet with the zoning board to find out what other changes have been made over the years and update our bylaws. You can't fight city hall.

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":

We needed the "certified" survey from an actual survey company in order to apply for a DECK permit from the town - it was their requirement for that. I don't know about any of the other permits you get from them.

The compliance officer from Lake Adventure knew we were going to put up a deck before we placed our new trailer. NO ONE from Lake Adventure, either verbally or in writing (on the trailer permit application papers that they give you) told us or even suggested we get a survey done BEFORE the trailer was delivered. LA doesn't require it for trailers and I think they should. (If LA had really looked, they would have found one of the original rebarb markers from an original survey and could have measured off that, instead of "guessing" where our boundaries ran. After all, we do pay a trailer permit fee which according to the bylaws is to "help defray the cost associated with the Campsite Maintenance Inspector who has the responsibility of verifying that all placements are in accordance with their respective Trailer Placement Permits.")

So, my advice to anyone getting a new trailer is to get an actual certified survey done before you buy it just to protect yourself. This way, YOU know exactly where your property lies and what might have to be done to fit the trailer you want. If I didn't already have one, I would definitely get a survey before I did anything else that could be scrutinized by the town for compliance. Surveys aren't cheap (can run $300-600) but in the end it is worth it to avoid the aggravation and extra expense that it will cost YOU (definitely more than the cost of the survey) to fix any problems. DO NOT DEPEND ON OR ASSUME LAKE ADVENTURE BYLAWS ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TOWN CODES & REGULATIONS! For example, LA bylaws measure the side setback as 7.5 ft from the edge of the chassis, excluding tip-outs and slide-outs to the property line. The Town requires 7.5 ft INCLUDING tip-outs and slide-outs when measuring.

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue + DINGMAN":


I drove around and checked out some abandon lots and it will be a problem getting out some of those pullout sections from the 8.5 wide homes let alone get a 12' wide in. Trees have grown in between the slides and most likely the trailers will have to be dismantled or trees ut down to get them out. It might be hard to get even another 8.5' wide in. Please clarify about all owners needing to get a survey. Did the twsp say we needed them even if we don't get a new trailer? Thanks for letting us know the pitfalls of purchasing a new home. I'm thinking about it. Should I get a survey done first just to be safe?

comment + 12' wide issue

Anonymous said...
I agree about Trails End. When we were interested in buying a lot years ago we were told LA was much better than TE. I now hear it's the other way around and I for one am not happy about our reputation. I've not been to TE but did take a ride around Eagle Lake and the new homes do a lot to increase the visual appearance of the place. True, it will take several years to get a decent supply of new housing stock but even 10-15 a year is a good start for prospective buyers to see potential in purchasing here. Don't know the legal problems in getting 12's passed. I guess we're not intelligent enough to understand what's going on even though our money is used to pay attorneys who seem to not be able to work the issue or a BOD that is't interested in working the matter. We need receive information on the progress or why there is a lack of progress. We must start asking questions via e-mail to the BOD about the 12' wide issue and getting answers not the run around we've been getting for the last five years.

December 1, 2008 12:22 PM

REACTION TO COMMENTS

i am glad to see that in the previous posting of comments that the 3 people commenting have highlighted concerns at la that i too share and am confident that if we can get more members to join in this blog we'd see many others share the same concerns and interests in getting la on a new level-- with new housing under the 12' wide issue, cleaning up the community, removing derelict trailers, opening lines of communication between the members and the manager and bod, expanding the activities for today's families and their recreational interests, moving la to more secure financial status, expanding and hasten the upgrades to the electric and the lateral programs-- a lot of work needs to be done and it's questionable whether this bod and their choice of manager can accomplish these tasks. let's see what happens!!!!

comment + 12' wide issue + bod

LOTS OF COMMENTS:

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + management":

The comments about the board president considering other interests, other then family issues, are more important is just an indication of people being elected to the board by a popularity, or the loudest voice and bully type tactics and is something property owners should take into consideration when voting in the next election. It seems the present board and boards since we've been here, the past ten years, had their own agendas. By the way, do we have a property manager to have a donut and coffee meeting with or has the board decided we don't need one and they will spend the winter running the place, yeah, Santa's coming to town.




Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue + DINGMAN":


It's true not all lots will accomodate a new 12' wide trailer without some work. Some trees may need to be cut down or a deck moved. Those of us who want to purchase a new 12' wide home shouldn't be penalized because some prefer to keep a tipout for what ever reason. I think the fact that a new trailer with placement hanging over an easement was an issue with LA management and they should have been responsible for the charge of moving the trailer. Isn't that the main function of the compliance officer, to make sure we comply with township codes???? I would like to purchase a 12' wide home and am aware the deck may have to be moved a foot or two to get it in but it will be a one time cost that to me is worth



Anonymous said...
I'm 60+ and I care about my investment and am very interested in getting new 12' wide homes into the community. This is a vacation resort not a retirement village so those senior citizens who don't want change are entitled to keep their lots in the '70s but I'd prefer my property to increase in value not be stuck in a time warp. I'd like this to be a place my kids and grandkids can continue to enjoy for years to come and you're correct we can only attract a new generation if we improve the landscape and facilities


#50

comment + 12' wide issue + DINGMAN

Anonymous said...
People have to be made aware of what purchasing a 12 wide involves. Don’t just think you can haul out the old and bring in the new.

I have heard from several sources (including the LA compliance officer) that the town has been coming in, marking down and photographing what is on each site. Why? Probably this: when they see something new going on at a site, they can go back to the file and see what has changed. They can then see if that new item (especially if it comes under their jurisdiction) is under code. And you will have some big problems if it isn’t!

For example, we bought a new trailer this year. Did it by the book – went down to the office, filed for our permit; the compliance officer came up to our site and checked it out and said there should be no problem with putting it in the same spot as the old one; had the trailer delivered while the compliance officer was there. Again, the new trailer was fine where it was placed.

Guess what? Not according to Dingman Township! We applied for a deck permit so we had to have a certified survey done. The town not only denied our permit at the time, but gave us ten days to let them know when we were moving the trailer because it was not in compliance with TOWN codes. It seems one corner of a pullout was hanging slightly into the easement area. WE had to pay to have the trailer moved and have a revised survey done.

Most property owners are going to find they are going to have to move their decks, sheds, etc. to make these 12 wides be in compliance because most existing 8.5s with pullouts ARE NOT. You’re not just going to paying $40,000 (or more) for a new trailer.

A poll of 246 respondents cannot be considered representational of the entire LA community. Even based on the 246, 87 is only a 35% positive feedback for the 12 wide issue. Something like this should have been done long ago on the LA website or through the mail. Property owners should be made aware of all the costs involved in getting a 12 wide and a new survey needs to be done by ALL members, especially in light of the town’s involvement in enforcing codes and regulations.

comment + 12' wide issue + DINGMAN

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "comment + 12' wide issue":

Your assumption of the 12 wides being an issue that brought the township down on LA is way out of line! The manager made Dingmans aware and many property owners went to the township with gripes and violations in house that gave them a reason to come in and start inspecting. If property owners abide by the rules and regulations, and didn't try to get away with things that they knew were out of line, they would have nothing to fear from township inspections but, if you tried to bend the rules and would not listen to the code enforcement officers you will face the consequences. LA needs something to attract new owners and raising dues and not having anything to offer younger owners you will not find new owners. Visit our local campgrounds or Trails End and Eagle Lake and observe the type of owners you will attract if they can get better trailers. Trails End had a reputation of being a dump, well, drive through there now and observe the changes that new 12 wides make in appearance and and type of property owners if you went there for the swim meet you couldn't miss the changes.

anon -- i agree that the community will only improve when it is attractive to younger people and has recreational activities that are relevant to younger families-- after all if your 60+ you really don't care what activities are being scheduled-- all you want is peace and quiet-- but you also will not be interested in investing in a new trailer and are willing to make due with what you have--- that's fine --- but the future for la is attracting younger members and providing them with a clean, safe, desirable community that has activities relevant to them and their entire family-- la is not doing this now!!!!! it must start!!!!

dingman township is simply enforcing the standard building codes that we community members must comply with--- it's like the water and sewer up until recently no one gave a rat's rear about the operation of these utilities-- NOT NOW!!!! now we must comply with the rules of the game and that has cost la plenty of money but there is no choice--- it's the law!!!! so complaining and blaming the township and the der about the cost and effort to comply with the laws is futile--- you must do it

the past decisions of many previous bods and the present bod has left la behind the 8 ball and now the community is going to have to play catchup -- it's a big job!!!